"I turned 80 on the very same day that my grandson was born in Shanghai," beams Eugenio Bregolat, smiling the smile of a life well-lived. 

He's primed to tell us his story about how he was born in the tiny northern Catalan town of La Seu d'Urgel and a love of reading lit the fires of curiosity and a desire to see the world. 

He also recalls his long and successful career as Spanish ambassador to China on three different terms of office, as well as posts in the post-Soviet Union Russia, Indonesia, Canada, the DPRK and Andorra. Of all his travels, it was China that changed him in a profound way. 

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"China has been, for me, a very, very special place," he says. "My son lives in Shanghai, he is married to a Chinese lady – so now my grandchildren, two boys born in Shanghai, they are 50 percent Chinese."  

His wife is from Russia and internationalism is a way of life in this house. He shares his secrets in the arts of diplomacy and understanding.

 

Ambassador to China three times – "In three different countries"

At home in his living room, he sits among an empire of memories: Ming and Qing Dynasty vases, photographs with Chinese presidents, friends, and others with personal notes written to him by Spanish royalty. 

"I was ambassador to China three times, but they were three different countries," he says. His first posting came when he was only 38 years old, from 1987 to 1991; he returned from 1999 to 2003, and again from 2011 to 2013. 

"I have spent 12 years of my life in China," he continues. "China on these three different occasions, with 10 years between each of them, was three different countries – so enormous, so incredible was the change during these decades."

A journey back in time: "The incredible change in China"

Speaking with energy and vitality, Bregolat takes us back to the China of the 1980s. 

"From my residence in Beijing at Sanlitunlu Road, you could see the difference without leaving the house," he says. "Back in 1987, there were no cars, only bicycles, or very few cars. No modern buildings. No highways. No lights at night. Everything was dark, no taxis. 

"The second time I became ambassador in '99, some 300 meters to the left of the Spanish Embassy, they built a 30-story building, Capital Mansion. This in the early days was unbelievable. 

"The third time also without moving from my neighborhood, instead of going left, you go right and there you arrive at a new shopping center. You can buy your iPhone there, you have the Spanish fashion stores, everything."

 

"Nobody could have imagined this, it was impossible"

Bregolat says China's profound change is what has lent legitimacy to its leaders. 

"Nobody could imagine this, it was impossible," he says. "The GDP per capita was $150 in 1978 when Deng Xiaoping began the changes – now it's over $12,000. In 40 years, it has multiplied by 800. Unbelievable. The World Bank says China has done in a generation what in the vast majority of countries has taken centuries. 

"In China, you still have something called the Communist Party of China holding political power. This is a fact. And this party has been able to produce the greatest process of economic development in world history. So, of course, this gives legitimacy – an immense legitimacy."

China's great transformation during the Deng Xiaoping era is the subject of Eugenio Bregolat's book  The Second Chinese Revolution.

"The title says everything," he explains. "Deng Xiaoping called the changes a revolution. I try to explain this revolution. In 1978, India's economy was maybe 10 percent larger than China's. Now the GDP of China is six times India's GDP. Mind-boggling. 

"Knowing that China is part of everybody's personal future, not everybody has had the chance to observe what I did for 12 years. I thought it was part of my duty to put it in a book so that people could see." 

 

"I would not change my life for anything"

"I am extremely happy to have had an opportunity to see the world changing before my eyes," Bregolat says. But how did China change him? 

"One of the things that I loved very much about China is the keen sense they have of nature. Take the Chinese paintings, you'll see mountains, rivers, landscapes. People, if they appear at all, are very small. 

"I feel very close to China and its culture. I picked up the habit of drinking tea, as everybody does. Chinese tea is so enormously varied that I compare it with wine in Spain or in European countries. You have an enormous variety. And also the tea ceremony has a sort of a spiritual meaning that is very deeply embedded into the Chinese historical personality."

 

"We misunderstand many things – we need respect and understanding"

There is a guide to understanding the 'other' in Bregolat's work, and in his words. 

"Inevitably our culture is Eurocentric. We tend to look at the world through our own glasses and, inevitably, we get into prejudices, we misunderstand many things. We have to understand that different countries, different civilizations have different approaches to life. 

"China, as everybody knows, is more ancient than Rome. So across the centuries and millennia, probably, they have learned some things and to go to their house and to tell them how they should behave is a bit rash. You must act with respect. That's what I believe I have learned. China is deeply conscious of being their own civilization and this comes from the depths of history."

Understanding China

With his unique position of understanding, Bregolat explains the Chinese political process. 

"There's a Party Congress once every five years, Two Sessions every year – they largely set the path. But let's look at the five-year plan," he begins. "One five-year plan ends and they are already working on the next five-year plan. 

"They ask universities, think tanks, cities, provinces, government departments, party departments. With all that, they make a sort of first draft and circulate the first draft. Everybody makes observations, then they elaborate the second draft. 

"This is not well-known or not at all known in the West, that the Communist Party to a large extent is a consensus factory." China's future, says Bregolat, is in the people's hands. 

 

"A world in which everybody can prosper and avoid war"

Understanding, acceptance, dialogue and diplomacy have to pave the path forward, Bregolat insists. 

"The West has to accept that China is a big power, that China is here and both sides have to try to understand the other, then see if we reach a world in which everybody can prosper and avoid war," he says. 

"China is China. We cannot apply our same principles and demand China be like us. It's different. If we now close the West to China then China will, of course, become closed. Even the large American corporations do not want decoupling, they want the Chinese market. 

"So that's the first thing, is to keep all channels open, we have to cooperate no matter what. It's extremely important to keep the doors and windows open. If we close them the future of the world will be bleaker."

 

"We depend on China"

When it comes to economic growth and stability, the West needs China, Bregolat says. 

"When the Chinese changed their policy with the virus, immediately the World Bank and the IMF changed their projections about growth in the world this year. Now they are saying China and India will have growth of about five and a half or six percent, maybe India seven, Europe a half percent, America one percent or maybe a little more. 

"We depend on China. If all these projections are true, China will provide something like 40 percent of world growth. That's the truth." 

China's international infrastructure investment vehicle known as the 'Belt and Road Initiative' "is no doubt a positive one," Bregolat says. As of January 2023, 151 countries were listed as having signed up to the BRI, with over $950 billion invested or loaned worldwide. 

"A country which has the means decides to invest or to lend money to a country which needs investment or loans. No doubt this is a positive thing," he says. 

Spain and China – '50 years of friendship'

2023 marks 50 years of official diplomatic relations between China and Spain and the milestone is being marked with '50 Years of Friendship' events in both countries. And there is a long tradition of cultural exchange. 

"They learn about Don Quixote in school in China," says Bregolat, Then there are the estimated 200 million football fans who support one of Spain's big three football clubs Real Madrid, Barcelona, or Atletico Madrid. 

Meanwhile, marquee Spanish products like olive oil, Iberian ham and wine now are established in Chinese markets and the big Spanish fashion houses like Inditex have their strong presence. Joint annual trade is now worth over $50 billion between the two economies, but there are also important but perhaps lesser-known ties between the two. 

"They helped us a lot, and these are not only in words," says Bregolat, "especially in the economic crisis starting in 2008. The Chinese buy, and have been buying for many years, Spanish debt in all the auctions, they are the main owners of Spanish debt abroad." 

"We are selling more, we are buying more today, trade wise, investment wise, but we can do much more," Bregolat insists. Spain now buys more in goods and services from China than from any other country, and Spanish exports to China doubled from 2016 to 2021. 

"Politically speaking," Bregolat says, Spain cannot be seen outside the European dynamic, but can influence direction. "Spain and Europe need to keep close links to China. Unless we have strong relations with China, it will be impossible to build the world of the future. 

"We are in favor of European strategic autonomy, but it is far more important for Europe to be a moderating power, to make sure this relationship between America and China does not become worse and worse, but the other way around. I think this would be our most honorable way to contribute. 

"If we do not build bridges, we fall into the water." 

 

Interview: Ken Browne; Producers: Sun Lan, Martin Egan; Camera: Gabriel Alaiz Rodriguez, Francisco Javier Martínez Adrados; Video Editor: Tom Brittle

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