"I'm only 88 years old," Marcelo Muñoz smiles wryly, speaking with the energy and vitality of a much younger man. "And I'm proud of every one of those years." 

As he should be, too. Muñoz was the first ever Spaniard to open a business in China, a calculated risk at a historic crossroads for both nations. 

"In Spain we were emerging from the Franco dictatorship, which had been 40 years of tremendous oppression and economic autarky," he says. "The Spanish economy was in shambles. We arrived in China right when it was opening up with Deng Xiaoping's policies."

Witnessing China's great changes from within

"I'm the only Spaniard who has experienced from within China the entire transformation of this country in the last 45 years – that's my trump introduction card," Muñoz says. He has been working with China for all that time, helping Spanish companies and government administrations do business with China through his consultancy.

He's a dedicated Sinophile, writing a number of books and publishing a constant flow of articles about China that build bridges and break down barriers between the two nations. He has also created his own think-tank called Cátedra China ('The China Chair') to bring together more than a hundred multidisciplinary experts from diverse fields to encourage greater engagement between Spain, Europe and China. It is, he says, his proudest achievement.

"China forces me to live in the future"

A captivating speaker, Muñoz is a force of nature in conversation: Ask him one question and he'll answer 10. You could sit and listen to him talk for hours – which is exactly what CGTN does. 

He's more than happy to share the secret to his vitality: "At my age, you're usually reminiscing about the past, telling stories the way grandparents do. I'm not interested in the past because China forces me to live the future day in, day out.

"That has forced me not to be old, not to have the mentality of a grandfather, but the mentality of a young man with a mind open to the new developments that I read about every day in China and that I have discovered on every trip to China."

Passing on a lifetime of learning

Travelling to China more than 130 times since 1978 and spending many years of his life there, Muñoz witnessed from within what he classes as "the greatest economic, political, social and psychological transformation that has occurred in the entire history of humanity." When his career in business came to an end, he found purpose and meaning in all he had learned. 

"I stepped back from the business world a long time ago," Muñoz says, "about 10 years ago because, among other things, cancer forced me to do so – a story I'm not afraid to tell, from which I emerged. And then I thought about everything I had discovered in China, which has been so enriching. I felt I had an obligation to pass it on."

Life, in one word 

Of the many things he's learned in all these years, he says, one word is essential. "If I had to choose one thing from all I've learned, I would boil it down to one word: Dialogue. Chinese Confucian philosophy seeks to reach harmony through the dialogue of understanding between different perspectives. The problem we Westerners have when we travel to China is that we want to dialogue on the basis that they accept our system and that they accept our ideas. If they don't accept our liberal democracy, China is reprehensible. That's not how you make advancements in understanding in this world. You have to bridge the differences with dialogue or get as close as possible. That capacity for dialogue, perhaps, or that attitude of dialogue is the highlight of what I have learned in China. It is the most remarkable learning." 

50 years of friendship

The year 2023 marks the celebration of the 50th year of official diplomatic relations between Spain and China and Muñoz sees it as an opportunity. 

"I'm trying to use the 50th anniversary as a catalyst for future cooperation," he says. "Spanish exports to China have decreased in percentage terms; Spain is not on the new Belt and Road Initiative; Spain does not accept being part of the main gateways of communication. 

"So I'm proposing: Let's join the initiative to promote exports. And we are a tourist power. Why don't we attract three or four million Chinese tourists to Spain each year? I mark the 50th anniversary and I look at goals that we can achieve with relative ease." 

"The West needs China"

Unstoppable in full flow, Muñoz continues speaking from the heart. "We have to get it into our heads that China is a market that we need," he insists. "The West needs China. China is essential for everything in the world, even if we don't want to accept it. It is essential. 

"If the growth of the world by 30 percent in the last 10 to 15 years is due to China, we have benefited. We are all fools if we don't take notice of this. We need that bridge with China to increase our economic activity, to increase knowledge and support and cooperation. Not to think about confrontation, but to think about dialogue and cooperation."

The art of dialogue

With a Masters degree in philosophy among his many academic honors, he speaks with authority from a great depth of learning and experience. 

"For anyone who doesn't know, there is a famous Chinese ancient book from the 4th or 5th century BC by Sun Tzu. The book is called The Art of War," he says. "Read the book from the first page to the last. The entire book is the art of negotiation and dialogue to avoid war, to avoid confrontation. For this reason, when China says that it does not want war or confrontation with the United States, it does not say it just in words. It is a whole philosophy, a whole way of thinking."  

The last word, as it so often does, belongs to Muñoz.

"Confrontation must be avoided and must be avoided through dialogue," he insists. "And that's what the West does not accept or understand. We believe that it is necessary to reach a confrontation. Why? Why don't we dedicate ourselves to cooperating on everything we agree on, instead of fighting over everything we don't agree on?"

Interview: Ken Browne; Producers: Sun Lan, Martin Egan; Camera: Gabriel Alaiz Rodriguez, Francisco Javier Martínez Adrados; Video Editor: Tom Brittle

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